The new corporate rule

Yesterday with the Hobby Lobby case, we have now allowed the courts to tell us that Corporations are not only people with free($$) speech, but they now have the freedumb of religion. Ohh joy!

Where will this lead? If these paper people are now allowed to impose their religion on their employees, where will it end? Will it end with simply health care benefits, or could it go further?

Could it end with the this line of thought: Corp: WE provide you with a job. With that job, We compensate you with OUR money. As an employee of OUR company, you are also a representative of OUR company whether you are on the clock or not. Your facebook and other social media are open to OUR interpretation and whether we agree with what you publish is agreeable with the fine print in OUR company policy is subject to Corporate policy.

Also, since We compensate you with OUR money that comes from What God bestows upon us with the business acumen that HE has bestowed upon us, if you are doing things that go against what OUR beliefs are, WE should and do reserve the right to terminate your employment at anytime for spending the money that We compensate you with by purchasing things that go against OUR beliefs.

We don’t condone alcohol, drugs,(prescription or illicit) pornography or other sinful things that will be left to the discrimination of our board of directors and Corporate policy handbook, which is 1,000 pages plus. (Non bureaucratic, of course)

Now my questions are these: Does this decision only refer to Christian Corporations, or does it also apply to  Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist and other religions? Are we all going to be at the beck and call of our new religious Corporate laws?

Isn’t it already bad enough that we have few if any rights in the workplace now as it is? Stay tuned for the fallout of this decision. I am sure that we have only heard the first of  many shots about to come across the bow of employee rights.



Shop class, schools, and the consquences

Hello, I am back. I have been battling on NM Craig’s list. It sometimes is juvenile,  but interesting how  they answer. Mostly I do it because  the rhetoric and aura of superiority on that site is stupendous, and someone has to retort their paranoid delusions of grandeur.


Here is my latest comment. I will  post a few more soon. I am going to  try to invite some of them here so that no one can delete comments. Unless the comment is outrageously vulgar or Word Press makes me take it down, it goes up. unless it’s spam of course.


“Put the trade back in our schools. We need to give our children a chance to try these things so they can see if they my like it . Woodworking ,welding ,machine shop, drafting,sewing, home economy’s”

Didn’t the schools used to teach these things? Yes, they did? So the question that needs to be asked is: “Why did they take them out?

Most likely for the same reason that this question of yours won’t happen to any but a select few schools in NM, let alone the country,”Why isn’t there any swimming pools in the schools?”. The answer?




When I was in school, many a decade ago, drivers ed was taught by a couple of teachers that were certified to teach drivers ed. The local car dealers donated a couple of cars for the use of drivers ed and the cost was built into the property taxes.

Now, each parent has the great honor of paying $500-$1,000 or more for each of their kids to learn how to drive. And if they fail the first time, guess who gets to pay that fee again? Ahhhhhh PRIVATIZATION! Aren’t the cost savings awesome?! Aren’t you glad that this model is starting to happen to school sports also?

The machines that we used for wood and metal shop were outdated when I used them many a decade ago (notice the plural), and those machines aren’t cheap, and there are few people that are willing to donate an outdated machine let alone a good used one or a new one. Those heavy machines bring a lot of money at the scrap yard. A down payment on a new or good used machine for the business.

Not to mention that most of the jobs in those catagories are being outsourced because they are considered “low skillz” jobz. Machinist jobs are going to China, along with a lot of the other manufacturing trades. So are furniture building and clothing jobz. According to cons, Mehicans are taking over the home building jobs (what little there are) and the landscaping tradez.

Everyone is now looking to have a ‘high skillz jobz’ or career, like fraudsters uuuh…ehem..errr…bankerz, traderz (traitors?), CEO’s, COO’s (coo coos?), accountants, doctors, physical therapists, hospital techs, lawyers, talking heads on TV or talking entities on what is left of radio. You know, good paying jobs/careers that pay good Money (Gods must be Capitalized, especially when it involves Capital/Money) and get more than a modicum of respect. None of those jobs that you mentioned get either of those anymore. Thanx cons.

Hard, mental and physical work (yes cons, those ‘low skillz jobz require mental skillz too) gets you nothing but a broken body and tossed aside like a broke down, rusted out 20 year old vehicle. Except the vehicle still has ‘value’ …… the scrap yard.

So the reason that we have schools failing, kidz failing, bridges falling apart, pot hole filled roads, crumbling industrial parks, and a faltering economy is because the wealth is being concentrated, condensed and compressed.

No one wants to pay for pools in schools. When I talk to my conservative friends and family, they do nothing but complain about how much time kids spend at school. “Before school practice, after school practice, study groups after school, after school/community related extra-curricular activities.” They hate schools but don’t mind their kidz being watched while they work and or get some time away, like a baby sitter. That is what they say teachers are anyway. Yet they wouldn’t nor could they do what happens at a school, even if they didn’t have to work. Not one of them could teach math, algebra, trig, English, grammar, home ec, computer lab, science, geology, geometry, social studies, local/State/Fed government, art (another thing cons hate liberal arts…eewwww! How… how…..elitist! Now give tax cuts to the ‘Job Creators’ and Wealthy!” ( more Capitalization for Gawds)Aren’t those people technically the, uh…how do I put it…. THE ELITE!?)

Not one of them have the necessary knowledge in ALL of those fields to educate their kidz. That is why schools were invented. That is why WE adopted PUBLIC SCHOOLS. So that EVERY KID could have a BASIC or above average EDUKASHUN. Do you know why there is a National Lunch program AND free or reduced rate lunch at our commie skool system? Thank the Military for that.

There were small local school systems that had lunch programs, mostly in poor areas of cities. But after WWI, I will let the author of this article tell you.

By 1913, School Lunches were operating in 30 cities and 14 states. However by 1918 and the beginning of WWI, the realization of how desperate the youth of America was painfully obvious. Enormous numbers of young men could not enter the military due to poor physical condition related to malnutrition. By 1919 2930 schools were now receiving hot lunches.


You see, you can’t wage war with malnourished draftees. Where were the Churches, charities, families and communities to help these less fortunate children and young adults?

And now, we have privatized out the school lunch programs in a majority of schools. There have been plenty of stories of lunch personnel tossing out perfectly good food into the trash because students were a few dollars short of the price of a meal. Tossing out and wasting food rather than feeding a child. Family Values? Tough Love? Personal Responsibility? Pro Life? Or, Corporate can write off the perfectly good food that was wasted and thrown in the trash and basically spit in the kids face and embarrass them in front of the whole school? Most likely it will be filed under all of them.

Personal Responsibility: If their parents were personally responsible they would’ve had the Money for the lunch.
Tough Love; sending the parents and the child the lesson that they have to Pay their bills,
Family Values. Being a good responsible citizen that pays their bills, feeds their children, and can take a little embarrassment will avoid such situations in the future.

So, if we end up in a war with one of these countries that now do our low skillz manufacturing jobs, where will we get our manufactured goods and who will do the low skillz work to get the necessities for waging WAR?

Or haven’t we thought that far ahead?

Free trade and Free markets for Freedumb!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Talking points defined.

Revenue neutral.

How do Republicans plan on lowering the deficit if the plans they are promoting are “revenue neutral”?

Think about it. What is neutral? It means it doesn’t go anywhere. How far does your car go in neutral? Unless it is on a hill, it goes nowhere. That is the point. They are going to lower the tax rates for the wealthy, while cutting spending for unemployed, disabled, some elderly, poor, children, and lower income citizens, and taking away some tax credits for home interest deductions, considering insurance from your employer as taxable income from the middle class to pay for those tax cuts.

But how exactly does that lower the debt? It doesn’t. But the followers of the Cons do not seem to think that matters or they don’t understand it. They see spending for the moochers and leeches and the parasitic lower classes of society and the union and public workers being cut and that is enough for them. Even if it means they will pay more.

Well, at least until they figure out they will be paying more. Here in Michigan, some of these Cons are starting to see that this year as they renew their vehicle registration and find out it has doubled. A wonderful result in “revenue neutral” tax cuts for corporations at the taxpayers expense. With NO promise of jobs.

Please remind me again, was Robin Hood a hero or a villain? I seem to have been mistaken in my interpretation.

Thank you for reading, it means a lot to me. I hope you enjoy it.




Today is a day to celebrate all the work those of us do that helps make our homes, towns, cities, counties, states, and country a better place to work and live our lives and raise our children to do the same. Unfortunately, this is not what most people celebrate today. A good portion of the laborers are on the job today. Thirty years ago, that would have been unheard of. Of course, you would also have gotten your goods the day before or the day after Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving and New Years also, because at least my town was CLOSED those days. Everyone had those days off. They were holidays. Days of rest, relaxation, thanksgiving, and family time. Not today. Now it would be lost economic activity.

Here in America we have become accustomed to being treated rather nicely by employers for the last few decades. That is starting to change. Some of us are waking up to the reality of what our larger employers are and have been doing overseas. Mostly because they have been shipping what used to be decent paid jobs that a person with highschool education and a little work ethic could live on and still afford a little to sock away.

Now that most of these mass production and repetitive jobs have been sent to countries where there are no labor laws, it makes one wonder if the unions didn’t have it right. The number of unions and members has been decimated in this country.  Again, I am not a journalist nor do I claim to be unbiased. I just look things up, and if they contradict what a “certain” parties claims are, well, the facts are just that. Is that me being biased? Or am I just biased for the truth?

I keep hearing how these unions have destroyed Detroit, Michigan, and our country. But I just can’t figure out how that can be. We have all heard of the lazy union, drunken, mistake prone, inept and incompetent employees and how they are the only ones being protected. OK. I understand that. I have seen it in action. But those cases seem to be the exception Not the rule. I am sure any one of us can take a look around at the people that we work with or come in contact through our jobs and say the same thing about non union members.  It is an unfortunate fact of the human condition. Even those that are considered extremely intelligent are prone to “errors of humanity”. Admit it, you have walked into a room and forgot what the hell you were even going in there for.  🙂

Detroit used to be a bustling metropolitan area of more than 1 million people. Northern Michigan used to be a vacation destination for a lot of these people to get away from the production line and city life for a couple of weekends a year.  There was massive amounts of economic activity driven by these workers.  This was a good portion of the money that these poorer rural communities received during the year. That has been slowing for over a two decades now,  and was drastically reduced during the last decade of outsourcing.

So It seems that union busting is actually putting more money into the hands of CEO’s and less in the workers pocket. What are the end results of that? A slower economy.

Remember, unions fought and died so that we could have 40 hour work weeks, family time, benefits, and weekends for our recreation. Is that too much to ask? Some say yes it is.

Here is a few websites for you to visit if you wish to know more about the labor and union movements


Have a Happy Labor Day!


Disclaimer; I am not now, nor have I ever been affiliated with any union. Nor is this a paid ad for them. It is, simply put, one workers opinion and observations. Take them for what you will.


Looks like the law and order Republicans are at it again.

More blatant pandering from the guy that can’t show proof of what he says. Anyway, If you are still reading this load of lies, you might be interested to know that it seems that Mr Romney doesn’t like the current delegate rules the RNC currently has. It seems there may be a way that Ron Paul could win. So, the “establishment republicans” do what they do best……change the rules with LAWYERS ARGUING FOR IT.

Seems we had a problem like this earlier, and resulted in similar rule changes.

Michigan GOP getting star treatment at convention, despite breaking rules

What is it about these “law and order” republicans and “retroactively changing rules” to their advantage?

Nothing to worry about. Nothing to see here. Just a POS LYING LIAR pushing LIES with NO PROOF!


Looks like a few of the Libertarians are starting to wake up to the “you will respect my authoritah!!!” crowd. this explains it all.

Chris Christie says respect is more important than love

More of that compassionate conservatism we keep hearing about? Like this?
Heheheheheheh! It’s sooooooo easy to piss off a lib, I don’t care who wrote it, it’s brilliant, unlike the libs who want to remain dependent on welfare and the government forever. Remember, don’t feed the animals because they will become dependent on you feeding them forever.
Or like this?

Yeah. That is what I imagine Jesus wanting us to do. Compare the poor, lame, uneducated and underprivileged, and outcasts……. to animals. You know, people, that were made in HIS image. Are you a sheep or a goat? mitt in uniform
PS Some say this is true. Some say this is false. Are you gong to believe SOME people? The next time a Facts are not news channel anchor says “some people say” why don’t you question WHO “some people” are? And if they just SAID IT, wouldn’t  THEY then be the “some people” that are saying? Just askin’

Remember what the GOP says………………



What is a Republican? Why I left.

You will see through the content of this blog that I will be far harder on Republicans than Democrats. There is reason. As I posted in the original post, I voted that party until around 2005.

At least I thought I was. Apparently I am more of a social liberal and more of a fiscal moderate. I am more like Dwight Eisenhower, at least fiscally. I would prefer tax money to help the country and the people of the country, as opposed to dropping bombs and killing “enemies”. That, is no longer acceptable in the Republican party.

I used to live in a rural area. When I say rural I don’t mean some small town. You couldn’t see my neighbors. There were five houses on the road I lived on that was a mile and quarter long. I finally got satellite  TV. Then I started watching the news and C-Span. There were all kinds of different viewpoints. Some of them shouldn’t even be viewpoints, but, well, Free speech. That seems to be the problem. Not Free speech, but it seems that every viewpoint is supposed to be seen as having merit. You and I both know that is NOT possible.

I was still gravitating toward Glenn Beck, Lou Dobbs and once in awhile O’Reilly. Then I started listening to this guy named Bill Moyers, and watching John Stewart and Colbert. The clips of Fox News gaffes started the switch. I guess I always had a little bend to the left, because I always thought that Big Corporations needed some Rules to live by.  And I really didn’t care for how the larger banks screwed the system and turned the system upside down, forcing the smaller banks to mimic  them.  I remember my dad saying that he used to get 15% interest on his some of his business accounts. What did I just type? 15% interest? From a BANK?!?!?!  YES!

I don’t want to go to far into that because I plan a different post about that. Just saying it because it is pertinent to why I left the Republicans. Then the stock market tanked. As soon as I heard the talk about irresponsible homeowners, I knew what was going to happen. Something inside me said that there were going to be a lot of people thrown out in the street, some with nowhere to go. I can’t be a part of that. And then the banks were bailed out. That was almost the end.

Then something happened. Barack Hussein Obama was elected to the office of  President of the United States. It seemed like the world turned upside down. People who seemed like rational human beings, worth listening to and maybe even voting for, suddenly went berserk. People I thought were honorable, worth looking up to flipped their lids and went off the deep end. And when they all went to Fox, he he, I left.

Then I was introduced to the internet. And here we are. This is the culmination of where my surfing has led me. That got me to thinking about what a Republican is.  So I did some research in that area, and this is what I found. Mind you, I am not a journalist, or a paid party rep, just some guy that would rather know what is kind of going on instead of  knowing who won the latest reality show. I simply want to get to the Truth.

You should know most of the next few posts I do may be posts that were from other posts of mine and replies to other posters. That is why I was not posting for a while.

I started looking at some of the Tea Party sites to see how “non establishment Republican” they are. This is what I found.

Reading through this manifesto of sorts, looks like a butchered, half written, one sided chunk of a history book that has been the tug of war toy for two pit bulls.

It mentions Warren Harding and the Teapot Dome scandal. Harding was a Republican. The scandal had to do with leasing Federal land rights to oil companies without competitive bidding. (what we now call no bid contracts)

Another interesting tidbit of information about Harding is how he handled the Great Railroad Strike

By the end of July, US National Guard troops were on duty in seven states and some 2,200 deputy U.S. marshals were actively clamping down on meetings and pickets.

It seems that Harding also did some other things. This page is worth taking the time to read. It seems that the department of public welfare was instituted under this Republican. Hmmmm.

That last link will tell you part of the reason that the welfare system is set up like it is.

It then jumps to 1973 and tells a little about Nixon and Watergate.

Then it skips to 1998 and the now infamous Monicagate.

Then on to 2001 to talk about the pardons of Bill Clinton.

Then it goes directly to our current President.

Forgot about Reagan and Iran Contra, S&L, all the little Central American wars, funding Osama Bin Laden to wage war against the Russian invasion.

Boy that story sounds awful familiar. Just put us in Russia’s place and presto.

And Saddam Hussein.

And what the hell happened to Bush?  Am I and the rest of the Nation suffering from some sort of mind warp. Did we take the wrong pill and have an 8 year long terrible dream?

I know this is only from one site, but quite a few of these sites are just like this. History didn’t start until January 21, 2009. The US National debt went from $0-$15 TRILLION THAT DAY.

Sorry. I can’t join a Party that has selective history traits that bad. Wolverine thinks I am ignorant for posting the things I post. Wolverine also thinks that I am lying to you and misinforming you. I simply am motivated. This is my motivation. I turned off the corporate cable news shortly after the Banker Bailouts. Instead of watching American Idol and Survivor I surfed the internet. Looking and searching for stuff I remembered and things I had no idea about. What I found sickened me.I don’t have the social or political connections to do anything about this, So I am now on here informing whoever reads these to what I am finding out. I have no reason to deceive anyone. I post links to the pages where I find this information and many times multiple sources. Then you have the option of going to that page and deciding for yourself if that information is worth a hill of beans or not. The way I see it, most people are more likely to come on here and read these little things than they are to look up most of this information. I am simply trying to help people be a more informed citizen and make a better choice in the elections they are likely to participate in. Like the choices are all that great anyway.

I am no great fan of the Democrats. They can be almost as bad as the Republicans. You know the Republicans. You can see what they are doing in this state. You know what they are doing in other states and at the Federal level. Here is something I found online just the other day.

“Republicanism was the distinctive political consciousness of the entire Revolutionary generation.”[13] J.G.A. Pocock explained the intellectual sources in America:[14]
” The Whig canon and the neo-Harringtonians, John Milton, James Harrington and Sidney, Trenchard, Gordon and Bolingbroke, together with the Greek, Roman, and Renaissance masters of the tradition as far as Montesquieu, formed the authoritative literature of this culture; and its values and concepts were those with which we have grown familiar: a civic and patriot ideal in which the personality was founded in property, perfected in citizenship but perpetually threatened by corruption; government figuring paradoxically as the principal source of corruption and operating through such means as patronage, faction, standing armies (opposed to the ideal of the militia); established churches (opposed to the Puritan and deist modes of American religion); and the promotion of a monied interest–though the formulation of this last concept was somewhat hindered by the keen desire for readily available paper credit common in colonies of settlement.

Revolutionary Republicanism was centered on limiting corruption and greed. Virtue was of the utmost importance for citizens and representatives. Revolutionaries took a lesson from ancient Rome, they knew it was necessary to avoid the luxury that had destroyed the Empire.[15] A virtuous citizen was one that ignored monetary compensation and made a commitment to resist and eradicate corruption. The Republic was sacred; therefore, it is necessary to serve the state in a truly representative way, ignoring self-interest and individual will. Republicanism required the service of those who were willing to give up their own interests for a common good. According to Bernard Bailyn “The preservation of liberty rested on the ability of the people to maintain effective checks on wielders of power and hence in the last analysis rested on the vigilance and moral stamina of the people….” Virtuous citizens needed to be strong defenders of liberty and challenge the corruption and greed in government. The duty of the virtuous citizen became a foundation for the American Revolution.[16]

The commitment of most Americans to republican values and to their property rights helped bring about the American Revolution. Britain was increasingly being seen as corrupt and hostile and that of a threat to the very idea of democracy; a threat to the established liberties that Americans enjoyed and to American property rights.[17] The greatest threat to liberty was thought by many to be corruption–not just in London but at home as well. The colonists associated it with luxury and, especially, inherited aristocracy, which they condemned. (A few Americans did gain English titles, but they moved to London.)

Historian Gordon Wood has tied the founding ideas to American Exceptionalism.”Our beliefs in liberty, equality, constitutionalism, and the well-being of ordinary people came out of the Revolutionary era.

n Discourse of 1759 Jonathan Mayhew states “An absolute submission to our prince, or whether disobedience and resistance may not be justified able in some cases. . .to all those who bear the title of rulers in common but only to those who actually perform the duty of rulers by exercising a reasonable and just authority for the good of human society.” The notion that British rulers were not virtuous, nor exercising their authority for the “good of human society” prompted the colonial desire to protect and reestablish republican values in government. This need to protect virtue was a philosophical underpinning of the American Revolution[22]

The open question, as Pocock suggested,[26] of the conflict between personal economic interest (grounded in Lockean liberalism) and classical republicanism, troubled Americans. Jefferson and Madison roundly denounced the Federalists for creating a national bank as tending to corruption and monarchism;

John Adams often pondered the issue of civic virtue. Writing Mercy Otis Warren in 1776, he agreed with the Greeks and the Romans, that, “Public Virtue cannot exist without private, and public Virtue is the only Foundation of Republics.” Adams insisted, “There must be a positive Passion for the public good, the public Interest, Honor, Power, and Glory, established in the Minds of the People, or there can be no Republican Government, nor any real Liberty. And this public Passion must be Superior to all private Passions. Men must be ready, they must pride themselves, and be happy to sacrifice their private Pleasures, Passions, and Interests, nay their private Friendships and dearest connections, when they Stand in Competition with the Rights of society.”[27]

Adams worried that a businessman might have financial interests that conflicted with republican duty; indeed, he was especially suspicious of banks. He decided that history taught that “the Spirit of Commerce … is incompatible with that purity of Heart, and Greatness of soul which is necessary for a happy Republic.” But so much of that spirit of commerce had infected America. In New England, Adams noted, “even the Farmers and Tradesmen are addicted to Commerce.” As a result, there was “a great Danger that a Republican Government would be very factious and turbulent there.”[28]

Under the new government after the Revolution, “republican motherhood” became an ideal, as exemplified by Abigail Adams and Mercy Otis Warren. The first duty of the republican woman was to instill republican values in her children, and to avoid luxury and ostentation.[3

Does this look like the current Republican party? If that definition is what “establishment Republican” means, I’ll take a few of those please.

Health Care and why the Republicans won

I believe the Republicans wanted this healthcare bill. They have been fighting against it ever since President Obama was elected. They have rallied up their base against it, demonized it, called it unconstitutional and have vowed to replace it.  I am calling their bluff.

After having an online disagreement with one of these conservatives to a post I made about what I referred to as The Heritage Foundation Care plan and their part in the individual mandate, I decided to look a little further. What I found out kind of shocked me. I found this video of  a Heritage Foundation representative at the signing ceremony for Romneys ‘ healthcare bill in Massachusetts.  He does a lot of talking about portability and being able to take your healthcare with you if you switch jobs. Sounds nice. COBRA is expensive when you have just been laid off or have to wait any amount of time before you are offered insurance at your next job, usually at 90 days or so. But isn’t that what the Republicans are complaining about the most?

This is the original post and what it resulted in.

It seems that some of the conservatives have misplaced the true origination of Obama care. If the American people had a memory better than a fish, or paid attention they would know the facts.

Fact: The dems started out wanting medicare for all. An immediate no go.
Fact: The dems then went to single a single payer plan. A small VAT tax on sales. NO GO AGAIN!
Fact : The dems then went and capitulated to the reps on almost all of their demands. Including the UNCONSTITUTIONAL MANDATE. That just happens to be a Republican idea.

Please be honest with yourselves and quit lying to the American populace. If you can’t own up to your own parties policies, ………. well then that is not our fault.


You are trying to dodge the point of my first post. This terrible bill that was passed by the evil Nanceee Pelossiiiii IS A HERITAGE FOUNDATION, MITT RAWMONEY, NEWT GINGRICH backed plan. There is video and audio
See Lyndsey Graham shaking his head yes? I do. Oops! But just like the Amnesty bill, you on the right can’t understand that the politicians on the right no longer work for you. With Citizens United passed and Montana having lost their “states rights” (funny how that only works when the states rights argument doesn’t cut it with the corporatists) having been shut down, the right now only answers to the “people”, the chartered people. You see, if you have a corporate charter, and a mufti-national one at that, then your voice matters.

Take the amnesty bill. Why would law and order republicans back a giveaway to non – citizens? They didn’t? They knew the base would be all riled up and the bill would fail. Yet they still won. How? They still get to keep all their illegal workers with no rights, and get to drive down wages and drive up unemployment among the citizenry. Then when you all see that the unemployment rate is high, and illegals are “raiding” our country, you all show up in droves at the polls and hopefully they win office. And then they quietly go back to the status quo, their base quiets down ( because you can’t blame them for doing nothing when they are in office) and nothing changes. Hey good job! You really made a difference! Wait, no you didn’t.

As for the Heritage Foundation Care, this is amazing. Your party put forth the plan, and now the democrats are the ones praising and trying to justify the plan, while the republicans are demonizing their own plan for your benefit, yet their special interests are the ones that will benefit from it. This is the most inefficient and costly way to go about providing access to health care possible. The funny thing is that I hear from people on the right about how they are poe’d about having to buy health insurance, yet they are poe’d about not being able to visit a doctor. I have taken friends to clinics while they were having heart pains and they were turned away. I wonder if the Government agent at the door was the one that turned them away. These same people were mad at people on disability, social security, and other programs because the “Government doesn’t help me, why should it help them” Well, if you are on disability or social security, you paid into those programs. Why didn’t you? Aren’t your kids covered by the state? How much do you pay to have your kids educated?

Anyway, you ask these people if they would be willing to pay a 3% sales tax if it would allow you to see a doctor and do you know what they say? GLADLY! Now who was duped?


Since you think I am a stupid conniving, democrat politician who does nothing but lie and distort despite the fact that I have shown visual, audible and printed proof of the fact that the individual mandate is a conservative idea, I will show you by using your own words and your elected leaders own words.. Please follow every word I type and you can read as slowly and as many times as you need..

First: I will state that you are right about the whole plan being nothing like the conservatives have proposed. The fact that 80% of OUR premiums will go toward OUR health care instead of CEO and shareholder profit. That is NOT a conservative proposal.
Second: The fact that insurers can no longer deny coverage to those who have “pre-existing conditions”, and if you end up with a disease or debilitating condition you can not be kicked out of a healthcare plan you have been paying into for years, IS NOT a conservative proposal.
Those are things to be proud to defend, right? If your argument is here, that is just semantics.
Now I will show you how the dems caved to the demands of the conservatives, in your own words.

“Fact: The dems started out wanting medicare for all. An immediate no go.
Fact: The dems then went to single a single payer plan. A small VAT tax on sales. NO GO AGAIN!
Fact : The dems then went and capitulated to the reps on almost all of their demands. Including the UNCONSTITUTIONAL MANDATE. That just happens to be a Republican idea. ”

Facts are something that are true, and these are not at all true.

During 2009 when Obamacare was being written, the Democrats had complete control of the house and senate. They had a 60 vote majority in the Senate and the Republicans could not stop anything. Single payer was abandond because even the moderate Democrats would not go along. (meaning they supported a more conservative bill, they were siding with the republicans)

“The majority of dems were for single payer. The majority of dems were for medicare for all.” Yes, there right from your post is a FACT and the TRUITH.

The MAJORITY of the dems were for single payer, but not enough to get it through the house or the senate. There was absolutely no way the Senators from Misouri, Montana and Nebraska would vote for single payer. (conservadem fillibuster)

They had to change their bill, not go secure the votes of Republicans, but to get enough of the Democrats.
Now read this carefully and s l o w l y, so that you understand it.
What you have been arguing is that it is all the EVILLLLL DEMONCRATS that passed this UNCONSTITUTIONAL MANDATE on the American people, yet you admit that the democrats original proposal was a VAT tax or medicare, which is single payer.
Yet you say that EVEN THE MODERATE DEMS, AKA DINO’S, Blue dog, or CONSERVADEMS, would NOT GO ALONG with it (meaning in your mind, they were more in agreement with the cons because they were siding with the cons.).Why? “The government is going to take over 1/8 or 20% or 35% (or what ever number you or FOX pulls out of the air ) of the private sector! And they will DESTROY THE PRIVATE INSURANCE INDUSTRY! ” Does that sound familiar to you? So why did the CONSERVADEMS vote for the bill? Because the Dems caved and moved to a more CONSERVATIVE PROPOSAL!

So your argument is proving my point, along with all the prior links which have been intentionally from as non-partisan websites as I could find so as not to have the “wing-nut” card played.

Here is more proof of the conservative healthcare proposals from conservative organizations
As to the Heritage Foundation, another distortion, they never proposed or supported anything like Obamacare.

Oh, really?:

Wow! That is straight from the mouth of a Rep from the Heritage Foundation! At the signing of Romneycare bill no less! And he is claiming responsibility for the bill? Yes, yes. He. is! Patient centered, consumer based, portability. Sound like familiar talking points. When he described portability, it kind of sounded like he wants to get away from employer based insurance system, doesn’t it? Looks and sounds like Charles Grassley is for mandates and a move away from employer based insurance too.

This explains the fillibuster and Romney backing the mandate for “Free Riders”

So, with all the evidence before you, do you think I am still lying to you? What reason do I have to lie to you?

Are these people lying to you? Or are they like Newt, first he says this,….
Then he has to go and do something like this:

But don’t you worry. They are not lying to you….until they are, but really they aren’t; they just didn”t inform you of everything or anything or were confused or uninformed at the time or just did not have all the pertinent information and facts neccessary to propose an informed and educated opinion to speak to the electorate to properly inform and educate them of the pertinent information that blah blah blah blah blah : ) Talk about Newspeak!

Like I said once before, you are entitled to your own opinion, but the facts are something that are verifiable. You have enough links and video of Romney and Newt saying themselves that the Heritage Foundation was the author of the individual mandate, Heritage Foundation members saying their bill was what Romney used to base Romney care on.and stating that they are forging a new future in healthcare. There is video of Romney stating that he would like Romney care to be a basis for national healtcare, based on the individual mandate that would get rid of the “moochers” and” leeches”, and Lyndsey Graham nodding in approval. I honestly don’t know what more proof you need to understand what I, and they have been saying to you. This does not mean that you or cons in general support this, but your think tanks and corporate leader DO!

That is why I call the Affordable Care Act, aka Obamacare/Romneycare,  Heritage Foundation Care.